Stretching the musical language

Interview with Sun-Mi Hong

On pottery, pressure, and limits
On the team, the label and REFLEX
On the Quintet, and other groups
On selfishness, potential, and new focus
On Music Meeting, and collaboration
On conversations and challenges
See Sun-Mi Hong live

You have just had a first leg of touring with your Quintet. I saw you at BIMHUIS on March 14th, the day of your album release. You looked happy, and you mentioned that it felt good to be out there with the new music.

‘I’m expecting this album will fly well from many different sides. From my fans, as well as my label, as myself. I have a tour manager, there are more people involved in what I’m doing. Which also means I have more responsibility, for more people, and that it has to go well.’

Do you feel pressure there? The fact that you are responsible for them?

‘I have many people that I’m working with in a way, so yeah, I felt pressure. But I have made some changes and feel much better now. It’s a business, I feel that it is for the first time. I think that’s why I had more pressure, but I lately I have just tried to take it easy and trust in the people I work with. I think that’s important.’

On pottery, pressure, and limits

You retreated for a while at the end of last year, but you also came back on the scene earlier than I thought you would. Was that time enough to reset your mind?

’I needed time for myself. Lots of things happened in my personal life since last October. So, that’s why I decided to go to Korea, to throw myself into something completely different. I didn’t want to just chill, because if I decided to stay with my family, that’s also stressing to a certain extent. I just took a different path to learn something that I was always interested in, which was pottery. Initially I tried to go to Japan, but I was thinking: I already live in a country where I don’t speak the language. And why do I always need to challenge myself? I got so tired of myself thinking that way, so I was like: I’m just going to go to Korea. I mean, what’s wrong with that? My own language is beautiful! And then I found this master of pottery guy who lives in the middle of nowhere. In a completely different part of Korea from where I grew up. I did not even see my family when I arrived in Korea. My pottery teacher helped me find a house for almost a month, near where the potter lives and works. I stayed there and studied making pots every day.

‘During the time, my family came over for a night. It’s really beautiful there, and it was nice to be together. And I had some more family time before I came back to Amsterdam. I didn’t feel it was enough but I felt the pressure of course. The more I take time off, the more I have work to do in the end. Whenever I come back from a break, I’m still not fully relaxed. You know, I’m not yet able to take, like, two, three or six months off of my work. One month was enough for now, but I’m thinking to do this more often. Just treat myself a little bit better.’

I was thinking about that when I saw the list of concerts you have lined up, as usual. You are always ‘on’. And that since 2018, more or less, when you started performing with your quintet, and with others at the same time. It never stops.

‘I didn’t feel my limit because it’s all so rewarding. And with Alistair I was having someone next to me who’s always helpful and supportive. Also my band was important, for stability, of course. But with my partner, it was living together, working together, practicing together, listening to the same type of music together, which is always so much fun. Then, with also my surroundings, my peers around, and then my career taking off well, that’s so rewarding. Being on the stage feels much better than all else I need to do, like organizing, booking, and traveling, et cetera. My mental health was pretty much okay, but I was just holding on, holding on, holding on… Now I am 35, I’m not that young anymore. I am trying to start the second chapter of my life, thinking about building my own family, you know, see my future more clearly. Relationships change. Things are not steady always, sometimes they start breaking apart, somewhat. And I see the cracks that I was kind of ignoring. The pleasure was always big enough to keep going. But I needed a bit of a break. To reflect on what I wanted. In life but also in music.’

On the team, the label, and REFLEX

You mentioned that you extended the team for the upcoming album. How’s that working for you?

‘I had a booker for a year who I asked to try and reach somewhere that I couldn’t. It was a great experience overall but I felt I had to make some changes to the system. I decided to try working only with a manager who can help me booking hotels, flights, talking to the venues et cetera. I think that’s where I needed more help eventually. With Menno Versluis I worked during North Sea Round Town, when I had my artist residency there. He is a natural at his job. He knows exactly what I need. I wish to continue working with other help too, but obviously a musician’s bank account doesn’t allow much space for that, unfortunately.’

And then there is Edition Records.

‘Yes, exactly. Who make sure that my albums are actually being sold, haha. They are such a big help, they always see potential for me. It is not always easy to bring a little name like mine to somewhere. My first album on Edition, two years ago, got us all very excited, and we did get some good press, but not as much as we expected. So, with this new release they were really helping me reach out to a lot of radio stations and important magazines and newspapers. Even in trying to organize things for tours they’ve been really helpful. I’m not hiring them of course. I feel like they are part of my team.’

You started showing more of your improv side during the last year. Most prominently with BIMHUIS Productions, on the REFLEX project Invisible Ropes, with what is called Sun-Mi Hong’s BIDA Orchestra.

‘I’ve always wanted to play many different things well. I’ve always been ambitious about what I do, which already kind of answers the question. As a person, I feel I have many different sides of me, and I think that’s what’s coming out now. I have wanted to see how much I could open up – as a drummer, as a musician. I want to find out where my limit is. And honestly, I still don’t think I’ve reached it. This BIDA group is great because it takes me somewhere new.I will give more attention to the line between composition and improvisation – composing in small sketches that give space for everyone to do their thing, and for me to do mine.’

On the Quintet, and other groups

Your quintet work has these composed, delicate touches, connected to your personal development.

‘As a composer for the quintet, I think I’m bringing in my own stories – my vulnerable moments, my background. They’re coming out in such a beautiful way. The quintet’s attitude and musicality is so beautiful too. They understand me deeply. I didn’t expect that in the beginning, but it grew over time. Everyone’s personality helps shape the music. It’s not just about my vision anymore; it’s become a shared creation. We, like most musicians, are trying to capture our life as it is. Unless someone has a very clear external vision, it usually comes from within. For me, it’s really important to capture this moment in time. That’s what the quintet’s music reflects – this exotic, free way of seeing the world and still find subtle beauty in it. I don’t want to lose that.’

Where does the more free stuff come from?

‘Probably from wanting to find the beauty of the moment;, for example, when I play with BIDA Orchestra I get very excited that I can kinda go with the flow without worrying much about anything else.’

“We’re not playing this music to please an audience.
We’re doing it to find out what we really want in music.”

Then there’s your contribution to Alessandro Fongaro’s Pietre…

‘…and the trio with Suzan Veneman and Zack Lober, and the duo with Alistair, and other stuff. The collaborations are all different personas, but they come from the same nucleus. To me that’s the interesting part – seeing the little differences. And that helps create unity in my playing. When we’re together – no matter the band – there’s always a connection because we’ve known each other so long. And that connection just keeps getting deeper because we share the same goals. We’re not playing this music to please an audience. We’re doing it to find out what we really want in music. That’s where the depth comes from, and I really value that now. Even if people don’t always see it, they can feel it.’

On selfishness, potential, and new focus

Your albums portray your development as a young musician from Korea coming to Europe with an urge to play drums, study, then finding your voice, developing your composing and playing. Fourth Page to me sounds like a reconciliation with Korea and with your family life. It’s very much present there. So, I guess the fifth page will be about this year, about looking ahead and creating new perspectives?

‘Haha, well, that’s very much expected.’

It’s a life story, a biography.

‘I always used to wonder: am I being selfish for looking so deeply into myself? Other people make music for different reasons. They might be passionate about other aspects of life, like raising awareness about global issues, or inspired by a love for film, creating music specifically themed around those things. I have always been stuck with my own story, which I used to think was a bit silly. Now, I actually see it as honest.’

You could look at it as egotistical, but I think that’s too negative. If that were true, you wouldn’t be able to collaborate with other musicians the way you do.

‘Exactly. It took me a few years to recognize that. I just couldn’t fully believe in myself at the time. But with each year – and each release – seeing how people respond to my music, and hearing feedback from friends, I’ve started to believe more in what I’m building. I’ve worked to become a more positive person. I don’t feel the need any more to complain about things, like, “Oh, it’s hard living in another country,” or, “Oh, I was just a student.” That chapter is closed, I can’t play that card anymore. What I want to focus on now is the sense that I’m carrying a lot of potential and possibility, something that younger generations can see and learn from. Whether it’s immigrants, or young female artists, or really anyone who wants to follow what they truly love – I want them to be able to look at what I’m doing and realize how much is possible. My focus has shifted, you could say. My life is grounded.’

“I want to be bold, to be honest on stage,
and to bring what I love into my music.”

So the story isn’t about struggling to be here anymore. It’s about what you do once you are here.

‘Exactly. I want to be bold, to be honest on stage, and to bring what I love into my music. If you can make that the center of your life – or your art – that’s something others can take inspiration from and carry forward into something new. And that’s where I’m at right now. I’m really happy to recognize that, and to be able to offer something to the next generation; something empowering. That’s why Ilove  teaching. I give workshops for that very reason.’

Teaching at Codarts in Rotterdam, with your schedule…

‘I can do just the minimum of hours for now, because I’m touring so much. But I have to say I’m doing alright. I’m always there when I have to be there. I like when they bring their own bands to the lesson, to talk about what it takes to play, and how the musicality has to come through knowing who you are.’

On Music Meeting, and collaboration

So, Music Meeting: you are playing there on all three days, 7 to 9 June, collaborating with other artists. But what can you tell us about Korean music?

‘Korea has a rich traditional music culture, but also a small but persistent avant-garde jazz scene and a pretty good contemporary jazz world. The problem is, when European presenters look at Korea, they mostly want traditional – or a fusion with traditional elements. And while that’s valuable, it sidelines a lot of amazing Korean jazz musicians. Some are doing great work, but because Korea is geographically and culturally isolated, they exist in a bubble. That’s both dangerous and beautiful – it lets them be authentic, but it also makes it harder for outsiders to assess what’s really going on.

‘If you’re talking about really collaborating with musicians from Korea, it can be a bit difficult. I don’t think we will connect immediately. Korean people are not known for ehm… We need time to get to know each other in a respectful way, and then to see how different we are. Once you know that you are on the same page, I am sure it works well. Korean people are very efficient and they want to work hard.’

For you to connect with fellow Koreans in SORI Quartet sounds like an obvious thing. Was it?

‘Of SORI Quartet, all musicians are based in Europe. We have been playing together for three years already. Doing a little tour in Korean cultural centers around the world. In Germany and London and in Turkey, for example. And I think I’m the youngest and have lived in Europe the shortest. Pianist Gee Hye Lee lived in Stuttgart for over 25 years, she is more fluent in German than Korean. And singer Song Yi Jeon lived in America and Europe for a long time, like Hyelim Kim, who plays the daegum, the Korean flute. All of them are teaching in their cities and are active in the scene. They are really easy to work with because their mindset is already different than just being Korean. Our stories are diverse, but we still share a lot of similarities, like what we miss and what we are thirsty for musically.Three of the band members don’t play traditional Korean music much, but with Hyelim – who is an expert on the matter – we try to combine the essence of the two worlds.’

And the other performances at Music Meeting? There is your quintet…

‘…and then there’s also a new trio with Alistair and Jozef Dumoulin, who’s part of the BIDA Orchestra. This project is a spontaneous set. SORI Quartet and my quintet are already established, but this trio was a special opportunity to bring something new. I have so much respect for Jozef. He’s inspiring and has really influenced the way I write and think about music. We’re going to rehearse the day before our performance and then just present it as kind of a new thing for all. Jozef already has a huge body of work behind him, which is incredible. We want to write something for him, and he might bring some of his own music too. It’s collaborative.’

On conversations and challenges

You have played with musicians of all generations by now.

‘I love working with musicians of older generations. There’s so much to learn from them, depending on the person. Some aren’t as open to newer generations, which can be tough, but I’ve had wonderful experiences with people from the ICP Orchestra, with Benjamin Herman, with Jasper Blom, and it’s always beautiful to have those conversations – about music, mistakes, challenges. As I see it, their lives are already shaped – like sea-worn stones. The waves don’t bother them anymore. It might not be true, they are all the same like me, still struggling…  But there are some people that I see as great examples.

‘And then there are people on the opposite side – there’s no changing them. I don’t expect them to suddenly become modern or woke, dealing with all these new conversations around gender or race. I just let them be. They have their repertoire, their way of doing things. Young musicians bring a different kind of energy, which is also really great. I haven’t been working much with people younger than me lately – except for Chaerin Im, but we knew each other already. I’d love to connect more with that generation too.’

Do you ever play standards still?

‘Jazz standards, the American Songbook, of course. Lately I’ve been too busy with my own music, but I still find it amazing. It continues to inspire me. I listen to a lot of it and would love to play more. That’s the foundation of jazz, how I was educated, what I loved in the beginning. It’s still with me, even if my current focus is elsewhere. Sometimes Benjamin Herman invites me to play standards in De Kring.

‘When it comes to my teaching at Codarts, it’s a bit different. My role is more about helping students find their identity in music – how to shape and present themselves, even with simple exercises. I want them to think how they can use it on the stage or create their own exercise from it. That’s what the school values in me.’

When that is the case, you might look differently at your own career too.

‘Well, yes, but I don’t have a master plan. When I started, I had a list of people I wanted to play with, and of course, that’s still there in some way. But now I realize my real goal is to grow and shape myself. Playing with a jazz legend can be a wonderful moment, but it’s not a sustainable goal. What’s more sustainable is focusing on collaborations that help me grow  – just to see how far I can stretch my musical language. I want to know what they’re into, what excites them. That’s how I keep developing. That’s a conscious decision I’ve made – to reach outward.’

Specific places you want to go play still?

‘Nothing comes to mind now. It’s all interesting! but I find myself drawn to harder-to-access places. Between musicians we talk about which countries are hard to reach – and that makes me want to try.’

Challenge is the recurring theme, when I talk with you.

‘This has to do with my own personality, probably – I am serious about what I do and tend to take things heavy in general. But I am working on it! You can take as a ‘challenge’ to stay humble and see what’s in front of you with a fresh mind set, and try all your best to make it.’

See Sun-Mi Hong live

08-05-2025 TILIA, Opus Jazz Club, Budapest
09-05-2025 TILIA SEXTAN, Paris
13-05-2025 Sun-Mi Hong Quintet, Theater Stübchen, Kassel
14-05-2025 Sun-Mi Hong Quintet, Unterfahrt, Munich
16-05-2025 Sun-Mi Hong Quintet, Domicil, Dortmund
18-05-2025 Viner/Lumley/Hong, Zaal 100, Amsterdam
22-05-2025 Listening Night, Murmur, Amsterdam
23-05-2025 Oscar Jan Hoogland Minute Made Music, OCCII, Amsterdam
24-05-2025 Pietre, RAUW Festival, Rotterdam
25-05-2025 Sanem Kalfa Miraculous Layers, Manchester Jazz Festival
28-05-2025 Sun-Mi Hong Quintet, JustJazz Festival, Delft
31-05-2025 Rave/Draksler/Hong, Splendor, Amsterdam

01-06-2025 Philipp Rüttgers Trio, Jazz Inverdan, Zaandam
07-06-2025 Sun-Mi Hong Quintet, Music Meeting, Nijmegen
08-06-2025 Payne/Dumoulin/Hong, Music Meeting, Nijmegen
09-06-2025 SORI Quartet, Music Meeting, Nijmegen
18-06-2025 Craig Taborn, Residency Holland Festival, Amsterdam
26-06-2025 Re:Collections, North Sea Round Town, Rotterdam
28-06-2025 Pietre, Südtirol Jazz Festival, Bolzano

11-07-2025 Sun-Mi Hong Quintet, NSJF, Rotterdam
18-07-2025 ENJI, PORI Jazz Festival, Pori
21-07-2025 Theresia Philipp Invites, Stadtgarten, Cologne
22-07-2025 – 27-07-2025 Jazz Summer School, Sligo, Ireland

04-08-2025 Felix Hauptmann Invites, Stadtgarten, Cologne
06-08-2025 Teis Semey Quintet MC, TBA, Copenhagen
07-08-2025 Teis Semey Quintet, DRs Concert Hall, Copenhagen
17-08-2025 Edwards/Nebbia/Hong, Cafe OTO, London
20-08-2025 Sun-Mi Hong Quintet, Canjazz, Cangas
22-08-2025 Noctilume, Grachtenfestival, Amsterdam
23-08-2025 Duo w/ Lukas Kranzelbinder, Saalfelden jazz Festival
23-08-2025 Teis Semey Quintet, Saalfelden jazz Festival
24-08-2025 BIDA Orchestra, Saalfelden Jazz Festival
30-08-2025 Sun-Mi Hong Quintet, ZO Jazzstage, Amsterdam
31-08-2025 No Fill3r feat. Jasper Blom, POM, Eindhoven

04-09-2025 No Fill3r feat. Jasper Blom, Bimhuis, Amsterdam
05-09-2025 Pietre, JazzChur, Switzerland
06-09-2025 Pietre, Unterfahrt, Munich
13-09-2025 No Fill3r feat. Jasper Blom, LantarenVenster, R’dam
19-09-2025 Sun-Mi Hong Quintet, Paradox, Tilburg
27-09-2025 Sun-Mi Hong Quintet, GEJazzt, Gelsenkirchen

03-10-2025 No Fill3r feat. Jasper Blom, TivoliVredenburg, Utrecht
04-10-2025 TILIA, Pégazz Festival, Paris

10-11-2025 Ziv Taubenfeld Quartet, De Pletterij, Haarlem
13-11-2025 Ziv Taubenfeld Quartet, NONA, Mechelen
14-11-2025 Ziv Taubenfeld Quartet, Jazzdor, Strasbourg
15-11-2025 Ziv Taubenfeld Quartet, Opus Jazz Club, Budapest
22-11-2025 Fabian Dudek, Stadtgarten, Cologne
23-11-2025 Fabian Dudek, Bimhuis, Amsterdam
26-11-2025 Sun-Mi Hong Quintet, Amare, Den Haag
27-11-2025 SORI Quartet, B-flat Jazz Club, Berlin

Check out Sunmihong.com for more information

Interview and text by Mark van Schaick
Photos by Federico Castelli